and president obama used to hate the debt ceilings. it's time to build something that controls the deficit properly and not arbitrary. >> brenda: toby, doesn't this basically give a blank check to washington saying we don't need a limit. at least when we have a limit we're forced to look at that number and realize how much we're borrowing. >> if that logic were true, they wouldn't have passed any of the spending stuff. first off, two countries in the world, united states and sweden who have a debt ceiling. people got rid of it, because what jonas is saying, it's political. and the second issue is, i don't want our economy held hostage and run by washington, right now, the buffoons in congress have more power over the economy with the, you know, stupid idea. if we give them this type of power we've hurt ourselves, kick the power away as far as i'm concerned. >> isn't this a dangerous way to enforce fiscal discipline? shouldn't we be doing it because we have a budget d stick with it like most americans have to? >> well, we do have a budg